Romans 8:10 "But if Christ is in you ..." (Not in Union with you)
And elswhere.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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jonathan dough
JD- whoever wrote that has never gone door to door for over 30 years SPEAKING with them.
That is utter nonsense. (Unless you're referring to the "he gave up being God, when becoming a man" psychobabble!)
Whoever wrote that? Are you serious? That might be the layman's confusion, but that is not what is considered orthodox teaching, from the source. Granted, there is confusion on the part of many believers, but that does not change traditional orthodox teaching. The JWs really are horrible liars in this respect, and it is shameful, putting words in Christian mouths that do not exist. Please educate yourself before you spew your sanctimonious, ill-informed views. The JWs are some of the worst liars on the market. Here is the proof: http://www.144000.110mb.com/index.html
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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jonathan dough
LOLOLOLOLO!
Churchoids say Jesus is God Almighty.
Jesus (and the above verse) say he is the IMAGE of God.
Who, oh WHO should I believe?
heh
That's another lie perpetuated by the JWs.
The Jehovah's Witnesses preach, incorrectly, that trinitarian Christians teach that the created humanity of Jesus, the creature, is God Almighty; but that is also false. Orthodox Christians - the overwhelming majority of Catholic and Protestant churches - teach that: “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922). Understanding the hypostatic union will go a long way to claritying your confusion.
Furthermore, the fact that He is referred to as the "image" doesn't help your case. Angels are invisible spirit creatures as well, and when they manifested themselves to Abraham, the physical "image" does not mean they stopped being angels and were separate creatures.
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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jonathan dough
17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist.
Colossians 1:17
Because the Word was actually before all things, he cannot be a thing, and therefore cannot be created. Don't bother giving us your reasons for changing God's word and inserting [other]. It won't work.
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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jonathan dough
Orthodox Christians - the overwhelming majority of Catholic and Protestant churches - teach that: “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922).
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Question regarding Jesus the Judge, Jehovah the judge.. serious replies please
by callitquits76 ini was just wondering how a jehovah's witness would answer this.. in john 5:22, the nwt states:.
"the father judges no one, but has committed all the judging to the son".
in rev 18:8, the nwt states:.
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jonathan dough
Begotten does not mean created.
Monogeneses is translated (1) “only” in (1a) Lk 7:12 of the widow of Nain’s son; (1b) Lk 8:42 of Jairus’ daughter; (2) “only-begotten” (2a) of Jesus in Jn 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 Jn 4:9; (2) of Isaac in Heb 11:17; and (3) “only child” in Lk 9:38 of the devil-possessed child.(4) With reference to Christ, the phrase “the only begotten of (from) the Father,” Jn 1:14, indicates that as the Son of God He was the sole representative of the Being and character of the One who sent Him. (4a) In the original the definite article is omitted both before “only begotten” and before “Father,” and its absence in each case serves to lay stress upon the characteristics referred to in the terms used.
(4b) The apostle’s object is to demonstrate what sort of glory it was that he and his fellow apostles had seen. (4c) That he is not merely making a comparison with earthly relationships is indicated by para, “from.” (4d) The glory was that of a unique relationship and the word “begotten” does not imply a beginning of His Sonship. (4e) It suggests relationship indeed, but must be distinguished from generation as applied to man.
(5) We can only rightly understand the term “the only begotten” when used of the Son, in the sense of un-originated relationship. (5a) The begetting is not an event of time, however remote, but a fact irrespective of time. (5b) The Christ did not become, but necessarily and eternally is the Son. He, a Person, possesses every attribute of pure Godhood. (5c) This necessitates eternity, absolute being; in this respect He is not ‘after’ the Father;
(8) In Jn 3:16 the statement, “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son” must not be taken to mean that Christ became the only begotten son by incarnation. (8a) The value and greatness of the gift lay in the Sonship of Him who was given. (8b) His Sonship was not the effect of His being given. (Strong and Vine’s, 167)
Hebrews 1:5 also argues against the Jehovah's Witnesses’ “procreation definition” because “begotten” is used with reference to the enthronement of the existing Christ; an Old Testament parallel to Psalm 2:6-8.
Lastly, even an English definition of “beget” as applied to Christ means to bring into a special relationship, and not by procreation.
(10) Beget in English means to bring into a special relationship. The “be” is intensive and “get” means to bring to one’s self. Jesus, as “the only-begotten of the Father” means that even though he had the unique and equal relationship within the Trinity in eternity past, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh, dwelt among men, was tempted in all ways, yet without sin, submitted to the death on the cross, was raised on the third day, and ascended to the right hand of the Father. He was always uniquely related to the Father, but even more so now as He is the only unique Son of God, the only sacrifice to remove sins and restore fallen man to God.
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I wish I could just not give a Sh!t about being an XJW!
by cyberjesus inmy whole freaking family is still in.
i am 5th generation and i use to have tons and tons of "friends" that are still in.
when i was little my dad was co substitute for years so we got to travel alot and meet even more jws.
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jonathan dough
Try going to church, a real one.
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508
Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs
by Mad Sweeney inthe watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.
they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.
" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.
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jonathan dough
Love your neighbor.
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Are some of the anointed ones now already ressurrected and gone to heaven as the society claim?
by Truthexplorer infrankly, i am a little bit confused by this teaching.
well when i read 1 thes 4:13-18, it contradicts what the society claim.. paul wrote -.
moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping [in death]; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope.
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jonathan dough
Yes, it supposedly started in 1918, but that theory is all nonsense. The JWs are wrong about everything.
More info here: http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-5.html#VI
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What exactly do Jehovah's Witnesses believe?
by chashathaway ini hear a lot, both on this forum and elsewhere, about all kinds of things jehovah's witnesses believe.
but i've never felt that outsiders were a good source of information about what faithful watchtowers actually believe.
in fact, i've discovered that the worst source of information about a religion is from those who were members but left the faith.
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jonathan dough
I. Summary of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings as they relate to the contents of this paper.[Home]
A) The revolving door of ever-changing doctrine[Home]
Every now and then the Jehovah's Witnesses make significant changes to their doctrine that reach to the very core of their belief system. As such, it can be a real challenge to pinpoint exactly what they believe from one year to the next. The changes they make are to be expected given the weakenesses in their dogma and the need to accommodate mountains of theological criticism. Invariably these changes bump up against other tenets of Society doctrine resulting in an ever-growing tangled mass of contradictions. Due to the nature of these shifting sands one should take their asserted beliefs with a grain of salt.
B) The New Testament was written primarily for the 144,000 who alone go to heaven to ultimately rule over all remaining JWs and the resurrected on earth [Home]The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that only 144,000 people go to heaven (Reasoning from the Scriptures (Reasoning) [New York, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1985], 166). These are the bride of Christ, God’s children, the elect, and often referred to as the “anointed” of Christ (Insight on the Scriptures (Insight), 2 vols. [New York, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1988], 786). The New Testament Greek Scriptures (New Testament) were written primarily for these brothers of Christ. They are specially chosen because they live especially good lives while on earth (Insight, 786-788). Once resurrected to heaven, a process which began in 1918 and will soon be concluded (the first resurrection) (Revelation - Its Grand Climax at Hand (Revelation Climax), [New York, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 19__] 103, 277) they will become a kingdom of priests and kings who will rule with Christ for one thousand years over humans on earth (Insight, 170, 524, 525).
C) The Great Crowd on earth will engage in perfecting resurrected flesh-and-blood humans to a sinless condition [Home]
This reign will involve their judging resurrected humans during the thousand year reign, and after the thousand year reign when resurrected mankind will undergo a final decisive test before being destroyed forever, or having their names written permanently in God’s book, or scroll, of life (Insight, 251, 788). Whereas the 144,000 are resurrected to heaven as spirit creatures, all other billions of humans worthy of the resurrection during the thousand year reign will be resurrected as corrupt flesh and blood humans with the possibility of immortality on earth (Reasoning, 333-336; Insight, 251). During the thousand year reign the Great Crowd will engage in “perfecting” resurrected humans to a sinless condition enjoyed by Adam and Eve before the fall (Reasoning, 337, 338).
D) The Great Crowd must pass a final test to gain eternal life[Home]
The Great Crowd (or large multitude) is a term found at Revelation 7:9. The Great Crowd are those Jehovah’s Witnesses who survive the Great Tribulation. They do not die, do not need to be resurrected and are declared righteous through faith (Insight, 788) although it appears as though they also must pass a final, decisive test to gain eternal life (Insight., 251). Most Jehovah’s Witnesses today consider themselves to be members of the Great Crowd and according to their interpretation of Revelation 7:9-17 they will always be earthly, not heavenly, subjects of the kingdom of heaven (or kingdom of God). As to those Jehovah’s Witnesses who are not of the 144,000 and do not survive the Great Tribulation, it is believed they will be resurrected in God’s due time (Insight, 788).E) The New Covenant applies only to God, Christ and the 144,000; it shall expire shortly. Only the 144,000 have their sins forgiven from Calvary to the 1,000 year reign[Home]
The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that when Jesus Christ died and rose to heaven to sit on God’s throne he began to reign only as king over his congregation of 144,000 followers who at the time were still earthly subjects of this spiritual kingdom (Insight, 524). This rule began with Christ’s blood sacrifice which was initiated pursuant to the much-anticipated New Covenant which replaced the old Mosaic Law covenant (Law covenant). This New Covenant, to which only God, Christ and the 144,000 are parties, will expire shortly after the last of the 144,000 are resurrected to heaven (Insight, 524). The only people who have their sins forgiven through Christ's blood sacrifice from the time of Adam until the beginning of the thousand year reign are the 144,000 (Insight, 736).F) Pre-incarnate Christ was just a created angel, not eternal, and while on earth nothing more than a man, a human. Jesus returned to earth in 1914 (the parousia)[Home]
The real kingdom of God, a much larger, expansive and lengthier kingdom, began in 1914 (the 1914 kingdom) when Christ supposedly sat on the throne to begin his rule over mankind (Insight, 169). Jesus, being a mere angel (Reasoning, 218) created hundreds of millions of years ago, only receives a subsidiary share of this kingdom of God (Insight, 169). 1914 A.D. is arguably the most important date in the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ belief system because it is the year that Jesus returned, or arrived (Great Man, ch. 133, 2; Reasoning, 344), to earth. This was the invisible Second Coming of Christ, or “parousia.” It also heralded the beginning of the first of three judgment days.G) The Jehovah's Witnesses were taught they're separating the sheep from the goats in their door-to-door ministry [Home]
We are currently in the first judgment day period. Under the guidance of the remaining earthly anointed 144,000, the Great Crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses were taught that they were separating the earth’s sheep and goats through their door-to-door ministry (The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived) (Great Man) [New York, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1991] chapter 111, 12-15). This fundamental doctrine, however, changed in 1995. The separation of sheep and goats has been postponed, for now, until a time after the Great Tribulation begins (The Watchtower, Oct. 15, 1995, pg. 23). The sheep join God’s one and only earthly organization, thus becoming members of the Great Crowd (if they survive the Great Tribulation) and earn the opportunity to live life everlasting; all the goats, those who do not heed their invitation, will be destroyed forever during the Great Tribulation and Armageddon with no prospect of resurrection (Ibid.).H. Only the Great Crowd survives Armageddon. The Great Crowd will restore the earth to a paradise and educate resurrected sinners to a state of perfection subject to even more laws and regulations; those to be re-educated include the patriarchs, Moses, etc.[Home]
The only humans who survive the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, where all the enemies of God are destroyed, are members of the Great Crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses (Ibid.); no one else. Then begins the thousand year reign of Christ and the 144,000 over the earth’s Great Crowd and the righteous and unrighteous - at least those who merit the resurrection during the thousand years (Reasoning, 339-340). This general resurrection during the millennium is the second resurrection according to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One of the tasks of the Great Crowd during this peaceful thousand year reign is to restore post-apocalyptic earth to a paradise-like condition. The Great Crowd also assists in educating the 20 billion resurrected dead to the will of God, to get to know Jesus, and to live in accordance with new laws and regulations revealed through the Law Scrolls of God opened at Revelation 20:12 (Insight, 788). The purpose of educating the resurrected is to lift them to a state of perfection on par with Adam and Eve’s sinless state of perfection they enjoyed before rebelling against Jehovah God (Ibid.).I) The Great Crowd and resurrected humans are not judged for any sins committed in this life, but only for sins committed during the 1,000 year reign, and after[Home]
The second judgment day period occurs during the thousand year reign. “Perfected” humans, now only corruptible rather than corrupt when resurrected, are tested and judged based not on their deeds and works in their previous lives (the one we experience today) but on their deeds during the thousand year reign (Ibid.). They believe this because all men are allegedly acquitted of sin in this life and pay for their sins with the wages of death (Insight, 788; Reasoning, 338). Therefore, the only deeds or sins for which they can be put on judgment for are those committed during the thousand year reign, and their conduct during the final test after the thousand years.J. Salvation can be gained only by passing a final test[Home]
The final test of their fidelity begins after the thousand year reign, the third judgment day, when those remaining perfected humans are confronted with the unleashing of Satan from the abyss and all which that entails. If they pass the test successfully they will have their names permanently written in the scroll, or book, of life. If they fail they are cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death, that is, eternal destruction (Insight, 251).Thereafter, the services of Christ, the angel, are no longer required. He is no longer needed as a helper in terms of a propitiatory sacrifice, nor as a legal intermediary between God and man. Accordingly, he is dispensed with in this regard (Insight, 170).
The Jehovah's Witnesses believe with all sincerity that they "have the truth" and "are in the truth." However given the very significant repudiation of past doctrines that have formed the essential core of their beliefs for over one hundred years it is doubtful they can make that claim. If their "truth" is not the "truth" by their own admission, then their theories were false.
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